Emersed Culture?

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Emersed Culture?

Postby AaronT » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:04 pm

For those of your keeping emersed culture Crypts.

1) How large are the pots you are using? I would guess 3" or 4" diameter pots would work well depending on the size of the species.

2) What level do you keep the water at? Is the water level even with the top of the soil or is the water level lower than the top of the soil and the soil stays wet via capillary action?

Thanks!
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Re: Emersed Culture?

Postby Kai Witte » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:29 pm

Hello Aaron,

1) How large are the pots you are using? I would guess 3" or 4" diameter pots would work well depending on the size of the species.

I'm mainly using plastic pots with about 3" long sides. However, if you start with small runners, it's preferable to start out with smaller pots or only a little bit of substrate so that the plant is able to send out roots throughout the substrate in a reasonable time.

2) What level do you keep the water at? Is the water level even with the top of the soil or is the water level lower than the top of the soil and the soil stays wet via capillary action?

With leafmould I'm using equal or higher water level to avoid compacting the slurry (this substrate is more fluid than solid). Using pots without drainage holes makes moving the pots around easier.

With mineral mixes I don't find that water level makes much of a difference.
Best wishes,
Kai
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Postby AaronT » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:37 am

Thanks Kai, that makes a lot of sense.

Temporarily I'll be using a peat / sand substrate in place of the leafmould until I can find some leafmould 'slurry' or compost some out of oak / maple leaves.

Sean was saying any leaf should work so long as it's from a hardwood tree. Granted, he said the best was still the beech tree as it seems to be the most acidic.
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Postby Gomer » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:30 am

I had an emersed setup where I grew Albida, Wendtii Mi Oya (?), Petchii and Parva.

I grew them completely opposite to the typical peat/sand/leafmould methods.

I actually grew them in an inert substrate (shultz) and supplied the nutrients with hydropolic solutions. The plants were kept in dome propogation units with small ~2" square 'pots'.

I had VERY successful growth with it until the hot weather came (I grew them outside in my parents backyard). I had had lots of propogations and even flowered the albida and wendtii. I pretty much ignored the setup and only paid attention to it every 1-2 weekends when I visited my parents home.

You can see some images here
http://webfiles.uci.edu/algomez/emersed/
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Postby AaronT » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:42 am

Nice pictures as always Tony. :)

Right now I have five 5.5 gallon tanks to work with. My current setup looks like this:
Image

The 5.5 gallons are on the top most shelf and lighting is a twin T8 shop light w/ 6,700k bulbs. I plan to make acrylic lids for them all to trap the humidity in. I'll likely devise a way that they can be vented more or less to adjust humidity.

This was / is my shrimp farm, but it's time for something new. Any shrimp I can fit in the planted setups are going in there and the rest will go to new homes.
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Postby DelawareJim » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:45 am

Don't forget; the 2004 AGA DVD has Jan's presentation on Crypts and their habitats and on growing them emersed.

Aaron; That's a nice stand you've got. Where'd you pick it up?

Cheers.
Jim
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Postby AaronT » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:29 am

DelawareJim wrote:Aaron; That's a nice stand you've got. Where'd you pick it up?

Cheers.
Jim

Jim,

My uncle gave it to me when he was moving. I've seen them at hardware stores all over. You'll want to get the heavy duty gauge though. ;)
I cut some 1/8" masonite to sit on top of the shelves to make an even surface. The 20 gallon and 10 gallon are on 2x4s because the two tanks together measure 51" and the rack is only 48".
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Postby EDGE » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:11 pm

1. 3" mesh pot with hydroton aka (leca) aka clay balls.

2. Just above the opening of the mesh on the side of the pots. The hydroton wicks the nutrient rich water to where it needs to be. There is no soil involve.

Took about 6 months of tinkering and adjustments for scurrilis to start growing in blackwater emersed hydroton setup.
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Postby AaronT » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:33 am

Thanks for the info on your setup Edge. I'll likely go with the leaf soil / peat mixture as I have a hardwood forest right behind my house full of oak and maple trees.
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Postby ruki » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:27 pm

Could someone give a nice definition for "black water"?

Is the water actually dark?
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Postby Kai Witte » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:41 pm

No, there's no straightforward definition for blackwater.

I'm usually using this term for very nutrient poor, acid waters (i.e. rainwater colored by organic stuff leaching out of decomposing plant material). Typical pH in SE ASia is 3.0-4.5 and the color resembles a cup of black tea or a glass of coke (the actual amount of organic substances can vary quite a bit).

On a global scale however, there are other blackwater habitats with widely diverging chemistry and origin though...
Best wishes,
Kai
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Postby shieber » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:57 pm

I can give you an example, the Rio Negro, which is the largest black water river in the world and the largest tributary to the Amazon is a black water river. It is the color of a very dark tea, sometimes almost the color of wine. It is crystal clear, virtually free of mineral content and very high in tannins and humic acids. It typically has a pH of around 4 and sometimes lower. The water comes down through mountains long ago leached and which impart very little in the way of minerals. The water might differe in other locals but basically it is high in tannins and acids, which helps to hold down bacterial activity and allow the water to remain clear and the color appear dark.

If the water picked up and carried a lot of silt, it would be far from clear and have a muddy color and be known as white water. The Solomoes is a good example of of white water river. It brings down lots of silt from the west South American mountains and where the Rio Solomoes and the Rio Negro join to form the Amazon, the two diff waters stay pretty much separate for miles, which looks as if giants had gently poured cream into their tea without stirring.

sh
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Postby SCMurphy » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:52 am

Edge has a description of his hydroponic set up on the APC site.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/foru ... -rate.html
It's a good description of thinking outside the box and succeeding. If you have time I recommend looking it over.
"したくさ" Sean

Aquascape? I'm a crypt farmer.

If you've got bait, I've got wasabi!

That IS an aquascape, it's titled THE VACANT LOT.
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Postby AaronT » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:22 am

I suspect that hydroton setup is a good way to try to grow the current demanding species such as keei and bullosa.

Have you tried those yet Edge?
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Postby EDGE » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:35 pm

Hydroton works quite well with bullosa, but the keei didnt survived after 1/2 year. I am still not 100% sure on the identity of the crypts though. My striolata looks like a submersed keei (photo from Crypt page) in my emersed setup and the keei I had didn't stay intact for a crypt that is supposely easy in the aquarium. I also had a piece of keei rhizome died in an aquarium with flourite/onyx mixed substrate. I guess I will never know what that crypt was.

On a side note, there is a minor set back with the setup. When I changed the nutrients level, the older leaves and roots melted while flowers started appearing. I am not sure if the plants are just adapting to the new ratio or the new nutrients is too concentrated for them. The ratio also made the leaves more leggy and smaller.

I am still figuring out what makes bullosa leaves big. I can only get it to 2" tall. scurrilis is sending out the 2nd leaf and doesn't look trace deficient compare to ferruginea. ferruginea needs a lot more nutrients than a true blackwater crypt.
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